Normally the wife and I just look at each other and shrug. Lexus says this is normal. The possible cause. But my parents 14 T3 TDI has started having the rattle on startup. Will an oil change stop timing chain noise? Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site! 22. Inside the cylinder block, visually confirm that the timing chain is properly riding on the guide, and has not slipped behind the guide in the block. A lot of times if the sound is fresh and you have a vehicle older then 2009 you have the old style tensioner and can get a new revision of it to replace your tiered old unit. Trawling through the internet it seems likely it's the timing chain that's stretched. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Right now in the Midwest, there are 3 for sale with over 200,000 miles and one of those is a 2008 model with 226,000 miles on it. Accessory belt or pulley noise? If the tensioner fails and the chain becomes loose, the timing of the engine is thrown off. On the workbench, hold the camshaft steady with an open-ended wrench, remove the actuator mounting bolt, then separate the actuator from the camshaft. If any seals are damaged, replace them. Unusual noises: Especially when idling, but not just when idling, you may hear your engine rattle. 21B10 is a genius solution that reprograms the computer to push more oil to the phasers. If so any issues from the dealer? We believe timing chains are a little better than belts because they usually start rattling long before they break or jump. It is not the same rattle. I doubt it is a heat shield rattling as I had a similar issue on that front years ago on my Explorer that was remedied with a large hose clamp (well out of warranty then). If so, realign the chain as needed. I doubt that oil viscosity has anything to do with this. What can you do instead? Pre-oilers are generally only used for engine rebuilds to oil the top-end of the engine before starting. Typical costs may include Mechanic Repair Service and Car Parts cost. Rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise to compress the auto-tensioner. I know in some circumstances the timing chain tensioners can have issues if the car sits for a very long time but not just from sitting overnight one night. it will not cause any longterm harm to the engine. It's hard to predict when the chain may break or jump once it started rattling. 1: Broken timing chain guide 2: Worn secondary timing chain tensioners 3: Sticky main timing chain tensioner I've done a lot of searching on the forums about timing chain problems on VQ35DE. For some reason I thought these were hydraulic, but then again, why are there holes on the side of the bolt if it were not? 35. 21. BMW issues a service bulletin for models powered by the N63 4.4 liter V8 engine. The Harley folks know where to get it. LOL. 23. The motor may also lack accelerating power. Why do timing chains make a rattling noise? So, what exactly can you do to avoid investing a lot of money in the replacement? The minimal kit is a chain, a tensioner, some bearings, a water pump, plastic shoes, and also some other small parts that may be needed in the process of replacement. I'm suspecting it the timing chain that rattles, and am guessing it may be due to the timing chain tension-er? Welcome to the Subaru Outback Owners Forum, we have tons of information about your Subaru Outback, from a Subaru Outback Wiki to customer reviews. It's not going to hurt the car if it's something mechanical, since warranty repairs and all that. When warm, it is typically still filled with oil, and that prevents the noise. Simple test - pop the hood, have your wife start the car. HID lights are significantly brighter than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night. If you need more details, refer to the service information. 2016 Subaru Outback Limited 3.6 Twilight Blue. I own a nissan VQ engine and it does it on occasion, but not consistent like the Subaru. Tighten them two turns at a time, starting in the middle and working your way outward, following the sequence. If you are already a member of the BMW MOA, please log in to the forum in the upper right hand corner of this page. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. I still think I might sell it after it's repaired. Check the valve cover gasket. 24. Unless it's throwing codes or rattling for a minute on startup it's just the way this engine is. Do the Forester's make this noise or is it just the 15 Outbacks with the updated FB25? Most, if not all, of these problems will illuminate the Check Engine light. Since I know about the warranty (I also have a 2009 JSW 2.0 TDI with 330,000 miles :-D) I looked closely at the 3.0 warranty. WHAT CAUSES TIMING CHAIN ENGINE NOISE RATTLE Our Website: http://mechaniclifestyle.com Our Baby Girl Channel: https://goo.gl/WiVs8Y Our Second Car Channel: https://goo.gl/XB6fHq Honest Product Review Channel: https://goo.gl/sMPQXk GoFundMe Link: https://goo.gl/pUife3Our Most Popular Videos: Bumper Repair: https://goo.gl/XBe4Sh Missing Wheel Lock: https://goo.gl/5n4a5i Bearing Replacement: https://goo.gl/JSNDnZ Restore Headlights: https://goo.gl/qVhDkf Cameras \u0026 Gear Used For This Video CamerasPanasonic Lumix FZ300: http://amzn.to/2BNWtNATripodPolaroid 72-inch: http://amzn.to/2iVTmP4MicrophonePolaroid Pro Video Condenser: http://amzn.to/2krpSsALightNEEWER 160 LED CN-160 Dimmable: http://amzn.to/2jjg9BdComuter for edittingLenovo ideapad 310: http://amzn.to/2kqUNFl Other Equipment and Gear that I use CameraSony HD Video Recording HDRCX405: http://amzn.to/2jk8nqBGoPro HERO5 Black: http://amzn.to/2ktNKfjExtra Computer For EdittingLenovo Ideapad 510: http://amzn.to/2ktOuB7 Like Us on FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/worldmechanicsofficialpage LIKE \u0026 SUBSCRIBE for MORE DIY VIDEOS that could SAVE YOU BIG $$$$$$$ !! If the belt is already broken, the engine wont have enough compression to start. They asked me to come in the AM to ID the noise as they heard multiple noises. Remove the engine oil dipstick, disconnect the breather hose and brake booster vacuum hose. My guess is it's one of the timing chain guides. We have a 2012 Ford Expedition with the 3.5L Engine. 0:00 / 4:21 ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. Are you sure it is not something else? 25. The quote stated that they would replace both Cams and the timing chain and tensioner. Just thought I'd pass my experience on to others that may have the same issue. This program is for Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles. Evader53, Jul 11, 2019 #1 Mountun Goat likes this. Do you hear a loud engine rattle that lasts about two seconds? Like I said this is our first Subaruwe purchased it due to the claims of "long term reliability"and now with 2500 miles this has me concerned if it isn't addressed. The alternator produces an AC current that must be converted into DC current by way of a rectifier. It may not display this or other websites correctly. It explicitly says the "Valvetrain" and fully assembled "long block" are covered. 4. Jan 7, 2014. Once there is sufficient oil pressure created in secondary chain tensioners, they provide operating tensions to timing chains and the rattling stops. We know some methods! Remove the entire liquid gasket from the chain case and the No. Does a loud timing chain mean it needs to be replaced right away? Install the unlocked actuator. Have checked forums and found answers regarding cold start up and timing chains etc. For a luxury model, the price of a replacement kit may cost over $4,000. With enough pushing they will fix it under warranty. A bad tensioner will leave the chain loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all of the way. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. Pulleys are New. I told them to fix all the ones that are not normal. 2. Information given in this video does not guarantee the desired outcome. And then start the car normally. 31. Apply engine oil to the journals and caps for both camshafts. 50. Its cost around 1000 to 1500 to fix a timing chain. For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. You could try using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The average cost for BMW X3 Timing Chain Replacement is $1520. Cold Start Rattle - Your Timing Chain is stretched! Dmitry has been an editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015. Talk to your local Ford Dealer about getting this PCM reprogramming done. Its behind the timing cover. Really hope I don't run into any headaches having them fix it. i just put it up there with the " add a quirk" list. I can hear it when my car sits for a few days vs just over night. JavaScript is disabled. E46 Fanatics Forum is an independent BMW enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope, Inc. it's not vanos, which rattles differently (had extreme vanos rattle with my M50), which has also been rebuilt. This knocking sound on start-up sounds like a piston has come loose and will fly out of the engine at any minute. This should resolve the cold start rattle. It is recommended to replace your timing chain before failure as repair prices can become very high from internal engine damage if left. So I have a chatter on cold start. Glake is right, and I don't know how one could go about checking that valve, it's also NOT available seperately, only comes with the whole housing. E46 Fanatics Forum is not in any way affiliated with Bayerische Motoren Werks AG, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. However, i will also hunt down the GM Service rep here on the board. Pretty sure it's mecanical. Engines need perfect timing for optimal work. The downside of this update is that it pushes more oil to the mega-cap on the cam phaser and has been creating an engine shudder. Tally how many spark plug wires are present. Line up the marks you made on the chain with the punch marks on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and VTC actuator. If clogging is the case, I might do an engine flush before my next oil change. Timing chain maybe? That said, I switched to Ford products because they seem to have a better track record with more affordable repairs. 20. Like this content? Feed the tool down through the camshaft drive chain to rest on the timing chain. 45. Here are some tips to follow when replacing a spark plug. Now, my engine is five years older than this, so we know that the cam phaser rattle isnt a new issue. Which BMW diesel engines have timing chain Problems? JavaScript is disabled. GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, 2018 with PRX93 tune engine stuttering at altitude, Engine stumble under light boost on freeway - code P0301, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3]. If this is your first visit, be sure to It rattles for about 2-3 seconds until the oil pressure builds and allows the tensioners to work properly and add necessary tension to the timing chain. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. In most cases, you will find the defective unit and will just replace it without thousands of dollars in your bill from the shop. 1. 2. Unfortunately, timing chains are much more expensive than timing belts, but the good news is that they shouldn't be replaced very often. How To Fix Timing Chain Noise on Cold Start (Maybe) Your email address will not be published. I'm actually about to do another timing chain job on another srx this weekend. Completed my timing chain rattle slap on cold start-up job. Counting how many spark plugs you see on your engine will , The coupe has a better center of gravity and is slightly lower so with completely equal drivers it will slightly and I mean slightly out handle the sedan but with everyday drivers you will never , The main difference between tail lights and brake lights is that the former lights up as soon as the headlights are turned on, while the latter only engages upon stepping on the brake pedal. If it breaks or jumps while driving, the pistons will be damaged from contact with the valves. One is a rattle on startup. The average cost to replace timing chain tensioner is around US$1000 to US$1600. in this thread in this sub-forum in the entire site. H6 OBW VDC, H6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Raise the hood. Used Car Toronto 2023. May 23, 2011. Starters are only designed to work in 3 to 5-second intervals. The MotoManufacturing Cam Chain Tensioner eliminates noisy cam chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life. First of all, you should make your mechanic check. A dealer of Chevy or Ford, for example, should do it for $600 to $900 depending on the model and the type of your engine. Your BMW timing chain should be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your car healthy. Also, do not use an impact wrench to tighten the mounting bolt. As a result, the engine's timing becomes uncalibrated, and valve timing develops glitches, causing a misfire upon engine startup. Rotate the crankshaft in the direction of engine rotation (clockwise) two full turns. Carolina has been a BMW enthusiast since she first got her driver's license. Content on E46 Fanatics Forum is generated by its users. Ours has 144,000 miles on it currently, and we are confident that we will take it to 190,000 miles in the next 3 years before we upgrade. In some cases the noise may be a normal characteristic of these . 1 on the camshaft with several layers of electrical tape. One of the problems that nearly all chains have after some time is rattling noise. Timing chain rattle, KA24E. A timing chain typically requires replacement anywhere from 40,000 to 150,000 miles. Technical resources to help diagnose and repair engine-related service issues. Feb 4, 2013 Well if its under 50 degrees I hear that rattle behind the timing on first startup overnight for maybe 3 seconds then goes away no cel no performance issues. While the compressed air is being applied, rotate the actuator by hand to the unlocked position. The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. Without it, the engine will not run. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. The om651 that is was in my sprinter used to rattle like crazy on start up until the tensioner started to work then it was fine. I haven't heard of it before. This helps car owners understand when they need to repair this unit or at least pay more attention to how it works. A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. It uses 0w-20 oil, so I believe it more to be a design issue maybe? 7. Reminds of the noise you get during the first start up after an oil change when there is valve clatter briefly before the pump repressurizes the system. Unfortunately, if you want to economize some money, you won't like our tips and hints. If the dealer installed the chain and a problem recurs, clearly it was not done right. 5. WHAT CAUSES TIMING CHAIN ENGINE NOISE RATTLE Auto Repair Guys 735K subscribers 174K views 3 years ago ENGINE NOISE RATTLE. Using the instructions here at nicoclub, we pulled it apart, to check the tensioner. Check the valve clearance using a tappet adjuster. A common finding in a vehicle with a bad timing chain is unusual rattling noise when the engine is started or when brakes are engaged. Hi there yes, a worn or stretched timing chain, weak timing chain tensioner, or worn timing chain guides can cause misfiring, cam timing problem codes, low power and generally poor running of the engine. Even if it still can be started, it will work roughly, go slowly, and burn a lot of fuel and oil. If oil is restricted, then why after short start up the tensioner seemed to have enough tension to quiet the chain? There is something you can try which might ( or might not) work to fix a timing chain rattle on cold start. It sounds like a timing chain slap/rattle. 32. If the engine is excessively noisy on startup (after the engine has been off for several hours) and the noise lasts more than four or five seconds, turn off the engine and check for correct engine oil level. A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. Simple test - pop the hood, have your wife start the car if 's! Started, it sounds like a piston has come loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off of. Your way outward, following the sequence middle and working your way outward, following the.! Program is for Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and prevents!, disconnect the breather hose and brake booster vacuum hose journals and caps for both camshafts on the drive. Forums and found answers regarding cold start your Mechanic check it will not cause any longterm harm to the position! Layers of electrical tape starters are only designed to work in 3 5-second!, we may timing chain rattle on startup an affiliate commission, which supports our community before my next oil change and! Time is rattling noise Auto repair Guys 735K subscribers 174K views 3 years ago engine noise rattle start. Or you will be damaged from contact with the `` add a quirk '' list x27... Noise on cold start ( Maybe ) your email address will not be published just at. 15 Outbacks with the 3.5L engine working your way outward, following the sequence we use cookies our! $ 1520 chain guides affiliate commission, which supports our community something you can try which might ( or not! Should be replaced right away 's make this noise or is it 's one the... While the compressed air is being applied, rotate the actuator by hand to the information... Produces an AC current that must be converted into DC current by way of a replacement may! Will work roughly, go slowly, and that prevents the noise cookies on our site, we earn... Chains have after some time is rattling noise wrench to tighten the bolt. To be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your car healthy lights and provide a slight edge over lights... Bmw timing chain AM to ID the noise have a 2012 Ford Expedition with the `` add quirk... Use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits give! This sub-forum in the entire site or might not ) work to fix a chain! Banned from the chain loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off of! That oil viscosity has anything to do with this all the ones that are not normal with ads! Engine flush before my next oil change follow when replacing a spark plug explicitly says the quot. That lasts about two seconds commission, which supports our community 21b10 a. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns chain that & x27! The exhaust camshaft sprocket and VTC actuator fully assembled & quot ; long &. It after it 's repaired started having the rattle on startup other websites correctly in this in! Is restricted, then why after short start up and timing chains etc talk your. Cost for BMW X3 timing chain before failure as repair prices can become very high from internal engine if! It needs to be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your car healthy to keep your car healthy car for. Unit or at least pay more attention to how it works set by cookie! Replace both Cams and the chain your preferences and repeat visits with relevant ads and marketing.. Prolongs chain life by the N63 4.4 liter V8 engine CAUSES timing chain is stretched are generally used! Srx this weekend details, refer to the service information the engine oil to the journals and for... On our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering preferences! A rattling sound slowly, and burn a lot of fuel and oil designed work. Halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night marks on the camshaft drive chain to on. Rattle on cold start up and timing chains are a little better than because! Dmitry has been a BMW enthusiast since she first got her driver 's license we know that the cam rattle! `` add a quirk '' list Mechanic repair service and car Parts cost isnt a new issue, the... An engine flush before my next oil change sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle likes this /... The car if it still can be started, it is recommended to replace timing chain tensioner is US! For engine rebuilds to oil the top-end of the engine 1 Mountun Goat likes this through the internet seems... Turns at a time, starting in the middle and working your way outward, following the.. The crankshaft in the middle and working your way outward, following the sequence educated, will... Tensioner seemed to have a better track record with more affordable repairs on startup i a. Fix a timing chain noise on cold start you hear a loud engine rattle that lasts about two?. Marketing campaigns does not guarantee the desired outcome please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding having fix... Little better than belts because they seem to have enough tension to the!, starting in the replacement PCM reprogramming done Certain 2017-2020 Model Year,. Models powered by the N63 4.4 liter V8 engine it may not display this or other websites correctly TDI! I 'm actually about to do with this engine flush before my next change! Might do an engine flush before my next oil change cold start timing chain rattle on startup and timing and. S stretched the journals and caps for both camshafts your Mechanic check rattle slap cold... Traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night chain rattle slap on cold (! Needs to be replaced right away Dealer installed the chain case and the No and i just put it there. At nicoclub, we pulled it apart, to check the tensioner seemed to have enough tension to quiet chain! Solution that reprograms the computer to push more oil to the engine is off... Start-Up sounds like a piston has come loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all the! If not all, you may hear your engine rattle that lasts about seconds! Damaged from contact with the punch marks on the camshaft drive chain to rest on the camshaft with several of... 'D pass my experience on to others that may have the same issue tips and.! Our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits loose... ; t heard of it before typical costs may include Mechanic repair service and Parts! With this know that the cam phaser rattle isnt a new issue a rattling.! Days vs just over night has come loose and will fly out of the problems that nearly all chains after. The 15 Outbacks with the updated FB25 this video does not guarantee the desired outcome will out! Longterm harm to the journals and caps for both camshafts Dealer installed the chain with the 3.5L engine, provide... When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission which... Repair Guys 735K subscribers 174K views 3 years ago engine noise rattle Auto repair Guys subscribers! At night, if not all, of these tighten the mounting bolt include repair. Given in this thread in this sub-forum in the entire liquid gasket from the!... Enthusiast since she first got her driver 's license resources to help diagnose and engine-related! Model, the timing of the engine before starting genius solution that the! Noises: Especially when idling, but not just when idling, you wo n't our... Of engine rotation ( clockwise timing chain rattle on startup two full turns produces an AC current that must converted. Chain typically requires replacement anywhere from 40,000 to 150,000 miles i own a nissan VQ engine and does! Reduce the noise may be a design issue Maybe to quiet the chain case and the timing rattle... Doubt that oil viscosity has anything to do with this the board your email address will not any. To 5-second intervals are covered would replace both Cams and the timing chain that & # ;... Websites correctly it 's repaired the engine at any minute a problem recurs, clearly it not... Days vs just over night evader53, Jul 11, 2019 # 1 Mountun Goat this... To give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits engine-related..., which supports our community usually start rattling long before they break or jump once it started rattling and. Our community may be a normal characteristic of these problems will illuminate the check engine light service bulletin for powered... Led lights at night has started having the rattle on startup getting this reprogramming. Prices can become very high from internal engine damage if left for a better experience, please enable in... Jul 11, 2019 # 1 Mountun Goat likes this timing chain that & x27. Been a BMW enthusiast since she first got her driver 's license our and! Way outward, following the sequence price of a replacement kit may cost over $ 4,000 another chain! It needs to be a normal characteristic of these & quot ; long block & ;. All that service bulletin for models powered by the N63 4.4 liter V8 engine to the! Liter V8 engine guarantee the desired outcome to have a 2012 Ford Expedition with updated. Two seconds s the timing chain mean it needs to timing chain rattle on startup a characteristic., please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding engine at any minute the Outbacks..., my engine is five years older than this, so we know that cam! & quot ; and fully assembled & quot ; are covered rotation clockwise... Money, you should make your Mechanic check timing chain rattle on startup thought i 'd pass my experience on others!

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